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Great!  How many files and indexes does CHKDSK report?  Is there any noticeable delay at or during Stage 2?

 

I believe the NTSF object identifiers added to every file and left over from iSwift even after KAV is removed are overwhelming CHKDSK in some systems and causing a widely reported delay at or during Stage 2.  We are hoping that the iSwift developers will provide a removal tool for the legacy NTSF object identifiers.

 

Thanks.

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Some good partial news. Someone from here http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18608452-...Swift~start=380 has created a tool to remove objectid's. Before I ran this on my Windows directory and Documents and Settings I wasn't even able to do a chkdsk it would report a failure after a long time. It still takes quite a while but it now finishes so I'm going to run this Object ID remover on the entire drive while I am gone at work tonight.

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Some good partial news.  Someone from here http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18608452-...Swift~start=380 has created a tool to remove objectid's.  Before I ran this on my Windows directory and Documents and Settings I wasn't even able to do a chkdsk it would report a failure after a long time.  It still takes quite a while but it now finishes so I'm going to run this Object ID remover on the entire drive while I am gone at work tonight.

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This usage of fsutil is still experimental, so I urge caution. It would be much better to try this on a test rig. If you're going to do this to your working PC then you should image your drive and back up your data first.

 

Microsoft has stated that deleting ObjectIDs can cause data loss, among other things. They were referring to Windows Server, but it undoubtedly also applies to XP.

 

Here's a snip from

http://technet2.microsoft.com/windowsserve...3.mspx?mfr=true

 

<<Warning

Do not delete, set, or otherwise modify an object identifier. Deleting or setting an object identifier can result in the loss of data from portions of a file, up to and including entire volumes of data. In addition you might cause adverse behavior in the Distributed Link Tracking (DLT) Client service and File Replication service (FRS).>>

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Is anyone running Vista experiencing chkdsk errors?

I'm interested strictly in Vista user reports. I'm also not interested in stage 2 slowdowns.

 

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

 

You may contact me via PM if you desire to do so.

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What's with the silence here? Are we getting a tool to remove the object identifiers and when?

 

When someone of the caliber of Gavin Coe (an AV, HIPS, and Trojan expert, formerly a DiamondCS trojan analyst, and now with Trojan Hunter) posts that he too has this chkdsk problem and appears stumped as to fixing it on his own and demands a FIX from Kaspersky well...Kaspersky cannot continue to ignore this issue. Kaspersky has come over to the dslr thread but just posted twice..weak posts and then Schouw posted "unofficially" and not a one of the Kaspersky employees is the least bit interested in what the majority of us in that thread, and another thread at Wilders Security, (actually several threads there), are concerned about. Kaspersky appears only interested in those with devasting damage to their computers. What about the rest of us who have a significant slowdown at, or during stage 2 of Chkdsk, and who want that damage reversed, and want the Object Identifiers placed on all our files, in perpetuity, removed by a KAV tool? Do we just get ignored and ignored?

 

Kaspersky employees have had the utter gall to continue trying to blame Microsoft for this mess. That isn't going to work. Either we get a tool and our computers are put back to pre-Kaspersky install status or I think there will be a class action lawsuit filed. We did not consent to have these Object Identifiers placed on all our files. We did not consent to the use of ISwift after we thought it was turned off in the GUI. We did not consent to having all this junk left on all our files, slowing our computer performance, and doing no telling what else in the long run, after we removed Kaspersky or any product from another vendor which uses the KAV engine.

 

We have been posting about this for over ONE YEAR now in this forum and been ignored until very recently and even now Kaspersky employees still pooh-poo the slow down in chkdsk, the errors, that we know are due to ISwift technology. I am not a KAV hater. I have been on record in this forum, and others, many times stating that I consider KAV 4.5 to be the best AV ever in existence. I beta tested KIS 6 on a virtual machine for months before installing KAV 6 on my host machine (but because it was a virtual machine where I could switch snapshots easily I never ran chkdsk).

 

I wasn't going to say anything further in this thread. I had my say early, and midway, in the thread already. But I am so frustrated, disappointed in Kaspersky's continuing to make light of this and not even apologizing, much less annoucing that a tool is forthcoming, that I could not remain silent. I can't provide the techs with logs because I uninstalled Kasperksy last December. I would have been glad to have provided any help I could give if this issue had been taken seriously last year when I still had KAV. Most of us with the damage no longer have KAV on our computers. Do not try to make out that because we can't provide the "proof" you seek in logs that we do not have damage. My computer was only two months old, and a top of the line Dell XPS 600, when I made my ill fated decision to install KAV 6.

 

Give us a tool for removal. If that can't be done then I suggest you beg Microsoft's help to get us a tool.

 

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18717127-...st-me-at-ISwift

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Talec is a member of the Kaspersky Technical Support team, who is actively investigating possible reasons for the CHKDSK/defrag problems reported in these Forums and elsewhere by KIS/KAV users. He has been in contact with me via the Forum's PM facility, and may have also contacted other users in this way already. Any information you can provide him with regarding your PC setup and experience of the slow/stalling CHKDSK issue will be of assistance - in particular, if you are able to supply a binary disk image (yes, I know!) for technical analysis by KL and the iSwift developers, that would be especially welcomed.

 

Good to see KL taking a positive interest at last in these problem reports - let's try to help them solve it!

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Mele20, did you miss this?

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No, Mele20 did not miss this and it's only a few days since she said that it was good to see Kaspersky finally take action............and took a bit of credit for that.........not realizing the same action was offered 2 months ago by Kulich from the testing dept.

 

Again, how is Kaspersky going to solve this if those who say they are afflicted don't wish to help with the data Kaspersky needs to find the cause. This is not going to be solved in thread after thread in forums speculating, it's going to be solved by working with with the developers who have urged those afflicted to contact them so they can move on this. If Gavin Coe is really such an expert on everything then i'm pretty sure he can help a lot more if he took the time to contact the developers and had a developer to developer talk, the offer is there and if he actually took the time to contact Talec i'm sure he can help speed up things.

 

The help would be appreciated, i'm 100% sure of that and please contact Talec if anyone seeing this do want to help.

 

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I don't even have the option to reformat sad.gif I have a 500GB hard drive with only 60GB free and don't have to the money to purchase another drive to copy my files too.. so I'm completely screwed because KIS did not put a warning they were tagging our files and possibly damaging our capability to run chkdsk.

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People have to vent, and please Don, don't tell me this issue doesn't show up on Kaspersky's OWN Computers.. I, along with others just got very upset and forever deleted Kaspersky off Our systems. Check your OWN machines and you'll have the "data" you need...

 

Thanks

Jim

Edited by StraightShooter

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People have to vent, and please Don, don't tell me this issue doesn't show up on Kaspersky's OWN Computers.. I, along with others just got very upset and forever deleted Kaspersky off Our systems. Check your OWN machines and you'll have the "data" you need...

 

Thanks

Jim

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Do you actually think that if Kaspersky had a problem with their pc's that they would just look the other way for months and not do something about it............please tell me that you can see the illogical reasoning here, it would not be in their best interest to ignore their own pc's if they were affected. It just seems very unproductive that when Kaspersky ask for help suddenly the most loud who were demanding Kaspersky should take notice go into "Check your OWN machines and you'll have the "data" you need..." mode and won't help the developers who have answerred your call with those things they will need to further explore this.

 

Sure there is a time to vent..............and then you start being productive after that instead of rehashing the same over and over. Again the offer is on the table with Kaspersky in contact MS and willing to go through all info sent to them.

 

P.s. My pc's are just fine, just like they have been through the 120-150 builds from the 6.0 prototype to the latest version 7.0.0.125 so not much use in my HD's being checked.

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This usage of fsutil is still experimental, so I urge caution. It would be much better to try this on a test rig. If you're going to do this to your working PC then you should image your drive and back up your data first.

 

Microsoft has stated that deleting ObjectIDs can cause data loss, among other things. They were referring to Windows Server, but it undoubtedly also applies to XP.

 

Here's a snip from

http://technet2.microsoft.com/windowsserve...3.mspx?mfr=true

 

<<Warning

Do not delete, set, or otherwise modify an object identifier. Deleting or setting an object identifier can result in the loss of data from portions of a file, up to and including entire volumes of data. In addition you might cause adverse behavior in the Distributed Link Tracking (DLT) Client service and File Replication service (FRS).>>

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Maybe so but at least now I can run a full chkdsk without it practically taking days to run. After this tool my chkdsk only took a few minutes to run where before it would actually give up and say it could not complete the chkdsk. Oh and for another note I used this on a 500GB SATA boot drive and chkdsk deleted one index than blue screen after reboot once (since after fixing indexes it doesn't actually reboot itself for the new index) than it booted 100% fine and I haven't seen a single software that has had issues with deleting these indexes. And I ONLY have 60GB free on this drive so it's not just a few files but alot of files. XP Pro Sp2 wink.gif

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Maybe so but at least now I can run a full chkdsk without it practically taking days to run.  After this tool my chkdsk only took a few minutes to run where before it would actually give up and say it could not complete the chkdsk.  Oh and for another note I used this on a 500GB SATA boot drive and chkdsk deleted one index than blue screen after reboot once (since after fixing indexes it doesn't actually reboot itself for the new index) than it booted 100% fine and I haven't seen a single software that has had issues with deleting these indexes.  And I ONLY have 60GB free on this drive so it's not just a few files but alot of files.  XP Pro Sp2 wink.gif

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Well, since you went ahead and did it anyway, you are now officially one of our alpha-testers! Please let us know if any glitches develop as you move forward.

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Do you actually think that if Kaspersky had a problem with their pc's that they would just look the other way for months and not do something about it............please tell me that you can see the illogical reasoning here, it would not be in their best interest to ignore their own pc's if they were affected. It just seems very unproductive that when Kaspersky ask for help suddenly the most loud who were demanding Kaspersky should take notice go into "Check your OWN machines and you'll have the "data" you need..." mode and won't help the developers who have answerred your call with those things they will need to further explore this.

 

Sure there is a time to vent..............and then you start being productive after that instead of rehashing the same over and over. Again the offer is on the table with Kaspersky in contact MS and willing to go through all info sent to them.

 

P.s. My pc's are just fine, just like they have been through the 120-150  builds from the 6.0 prototype to the latest version 7.0.0.125 so not much use in my HD's being checked.

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To be honest, I'm not really bothered whether Kaspersky can replicate the CHKDSK issue or not.

 

It should be plainly obvious that many people are having (or have had) issues with the object identifiers added to the file system, not only by Kaspersky itself, but also it seems by other security software using the Kaspersky engine. I myself have seen the same symptoms on a variety of machines running both ZoneAlarm AV and AOL AV.

 

The thing that really seems to irritate people is how this stuff gets left on their PC even when they decide to remove the offending software. Personally, even if I had no problems at all, I would still expect my filesystem to be restored to its former state after an uninstall. Can Kaspersky give us a reason why this isn't done (other than the fact that they hoped nobody would notice of course)?

 

I appreciate that Kaspersky appear to want to help current users of their sofware, but it seems that anyone who has finally grown tired of waiting and decided to uninstall is on their own.

 

If anyone knows how Kaspersky AV amends the file system, they do.

 

If anyone can write a simple tool to remove this information, they can.

 

If anyone should care about how this issue is damaging faith in their product, regardless of whether they can reproduce it or not, they should.

 

Either please explain why it is acceptable to leave our file systems permanently amended/affected or restore some good faith and provide us with a removal tool irrespective of the fact that all your computers seem fine.

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To be honest, I'm not really bothered whether Kaspersky can replicate the CHKDSK issue or not.

 

It should be plainly obvious that many people are having (or have had) issues with the object identifiers added to the file system, not only by Kaspersky itself, but also it seems by other security software using the Kaspersky engine. I myself have seen the same symptoms on a variety of machines running both ZoneAlarm AV and AOL AV.

 

The thing that really seems to irritate people is how this stuff gets left on their PC even when they decide to remove the offending software. Personally, even if I had no problems at all, I would still expect my filesystem to be restored to its former state after an uninstall. Can Kaspersky give us a reason why this isn't done (other than the fact that they hoped nobody would notice of course)?

 

I appreciate that Kaspersky appear to want to help current users of their sofware, but it seems that anyone who has finally grown tired of waiting and decided to uninstall is on their own.

 

If anyone knows how Kaspersky AV amends the file system, they do.

 

If anyone can write a simple tool to remove this information, they can.

 

If anyone should care about how this issue is damaging faith in their product, regardless of whether they can reproduce it or not, they should.

 

Either please explain why it is acceptable to leave our file systems permanently amended/affected or restore some good faith and provide us with a removal tool irrespective of the fact that all your computers seem fine.

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Since you have quoted me and seem to ask me.................i can't give you a tool, only Kaspersky can.

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Well, since you went ahead and did it anyway, you are now officially one of our alpha-testers! Please let us know if any glitches develop as you move forward.

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Ok results.. No found issues.. running perfectly.. no slow downs.. I even ran the concurrent tcp/ip connection patch to see if the system file checker would notice the change. It did.. so it doesn't seem that the objectid's are used for that at all. So the results is an SATA Primary 500GB with only 60GB free has had no issues at all here. It's really nice being able to run chkdsk again especially since after I have run chkdsk and it's fixed the single index error I know longer have software freaking out on me and locking up my system like I did before.

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Since you have quoted me and seem to ask me.................i can't give you a tool, only Kaspersky can.

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Sorry, no that comment was not aimed at you, but at Kaspersky. It could have been worded more clearly.

 

I am aware that this probably not the place to ask questions such as this, as no doubt (as is the case with practically all user forums) they never admit to reading them.

 

I would however be interested in whether you think that I have a valid point regarding whether they should consider offering a removal tool whether they can recreate the issue or not.

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Sorry, no that comment was not aimed at you, but at Kaspersky. It could have been worded more clearly.

 

I am aware that this probably not the place to ask questions such as this, as no doubt (as is the case with practically all user forums) they never admit to reading them.

 

I would however be interested in whether you think that I have a valid point regarding whether they should consider offering a removal tool whether they can recreate the issue or not.

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It seems they must not be properly logging what they added so it's probably impossible to remove the data. They should never have added anything without proper logging. I must say Norton kept it's own folder with quite a large database and it never affected chkdsk and also seemed to get completely removed after uninstalling. Kaspersky needs to be more aware of the dangers of adding data and not having no method to remove it. I can tell you I turned off BOTH IChecker and ISwift and refuse to do another full disk scan and I definitely am sick of seeing the alert.. you have never done a full disk scan.. What a pain I have to see a stupid alert everytime I open KIS because I am in fear of running full scan and using either IChecker or ISwift. SO I have to wonder how safe am I without IChecker? No clue but I do fear re-activating it.. it took more than a night of not being able to use my computer to run remobjid on the entire drive.

 

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Sorry, no that comment was not aimed at you, but at Kaspersky. It could have been worded more clearly.

 

I am aware that this probably not the place to ask questions such as this, as no doubt (as is the case with practically all user forums) they never admit to reading them.

 

I would however be interested in whether you think that I have a valid point regarding whether they should consider offering a removal tool whether they can recreate the issue or not.

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I think that whether or not a tool is necessary...... it is more correct that Kaspersky answers.

It seems they must not be properly logging what they added so it's probably impossible to remove the data.  They should never have added anything without proper logging.  I must say Norton kept it's own folder with quite a large database and it never affected chkdsk and also seemed to get completely removed after uninstalling.  Kaspersky needs to be more aware of the dangers of adding data and not having no method to remove it.  I can tell you I turned off BOTH IChecker and ISwift and refuse to do another full disk scan and I definitely am sick of seeing the alert.. you have never done a full disk scan.. What a pain I have to see a stupid alert everytime I open KIS because I am in fear of running full scan and using either IChecker or ISwift.  SO I have to wonder how safe am I without IChecker?  No clue but I do fear re-activating it.. it took more than a night of not being able to use my computer to run remobjid on the entire drive.

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You 100% safe without iChecker, it will add nothing to security, it's technology to speed up.

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And, you can uncheck everything but, say, Memory, in Scan My Computer, and then run that full system scan, getting rid of the nag that way.

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And, you can uncheck everything but, say, Memory, in Scan My Computer, and then run that full system scan, getting rid of the nag that way.

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Thanks for that suggestion King Grub smile.gif

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"sick of seeing the alert": Settings-Appearance-Advanced: Balloon notification can be unchecked here.

CHKDSK still happy over here. No need (yet?) for fsutil or SpinRight or.......but its nice to know that Kaspersky is aware of and working on this.

 

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Kaspersky senior engineers are working together with MS regarding this issue smile.gif

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Kaspersky senior engineers are working together with MS regarding this issue smile.gif

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Thats great news. I reinstalled KAV today just to give it another go (I do love it...) and found immediately after reinstall I was getting Index errors and that damned huuuuuge lag...

 

Hopefully now this long running (and often HUGELY blown out of proportion) issue can be fixed.

 

So what is everybody's predicted outcome? An official fsutil style tool and a patch to disable ISwift until the issue is removed? Thats what I think...

 

I would like to see more Kaspersky input into this thread... maybe even a news update on their website or a sticky thread explaining what is being done? It would restore a lot of faith - particularly with me.

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Thats great news. I reinstalled KAV today just to give it another go (I do love it...) and found immediately after reinstall I was getting Index errors and that damned huuuuuge lag...

 

Hopefully now this long running (and often HUGELY blown out of proportion) issue can be fixed.

 

So what is everybody's predicted outcome? An official fsutil style tool and a patch to disable ISwift until the issue is removed? Thats what I think...

 

I would like to see more Kaspersky input into this thread... maybe even a news update on their website or a sticky thread explaining what is being done? It would restore a lot of faith - particularly with me.

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Will this be fixed for aol avs as well i hope so

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