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I ran Chkdisc today because diskeeper wouldn't analyse or defrag intill i did.

it took a while on stage 2 but then got going and ended fine.

I then defragmented my c drive with diskeeper 10 pro.

it has more pink since installing kaspersky thou.

pink=low performing system files.

but my pc is running fine so i dont worry.

lodore

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I forgot to say that the same thing happens with the chkdsk speed. In my case chkdsk stage #2 pauses a very long time at 2% and then quickly jumps to 31%. 31% to 100% is minutes rather than the 'hours' spent at 2%. This strange pause seems to effect O&O defrag too.

 

Here's another chdsk output with the error that I typed into Google:

 

C:\>chkdsk

The type of the file system is NTFS.

 

WARNING! F parameter not specified.

Running CHKDSK in read-only mode.

 

CHKDSK is verifying files (stage 1 of 3)...

File verification completed.

CHKDSK is verifying indexes (stage 2 of 3)...

Deleting an index entry from index $O of file 12776.

...

Repairing an index entry in index $O of file 12776.

Deleting an index entry from index $O of file 12776.

...

Deleting an index entry from index $O of file 12776.

Missing object id index entry or duplicate object id detected

for file record segment 171081.

...

Missing object id index entry or duplicate object id detected

for file record segment 231604.

Deleting index entry PL61C3~1 in index $I30 of file 14764.

...

Deleting index entry EE0E20~1 in index $I30 of file 188066.

Index verification completed.

 

Errors found. CHKDSK cannot continue in read-only mode.

 

Please help!

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lodore, just out of interest:

How many files do you have on your partition protected by KIS/KAV?

Are you using KIS/KAV 6.0? Which release?

 

My PC also appears to be running fine except that O&O defrag refuses to work and chkdsk always reports these errors and is unable to remove the errors... so I have yet to discover the corrupted folders/files... but I have several 100s of 1000s of files...

 

-Simon

 

 

I ran Chkdisc today because diskeeper wouldn't analyse or defrag intill i did.

it took a while on stage 2 but then got going and ended fine.

I then defragmented my c drive with diskeeper 10 pro.

it has more pink since installing kaspersky thou.

pink=low performing system files.

but my pc is running fine so i dont worry.

lodore

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I'm also wondering if this problem is related to my other problem:

http://forum.kaspersky.com/index.php?showtopic=28618

 

I have this habit of always looking in the Task manager to see which programs are CPU hungry. That's why I noticed the CPU greedy KIS6.0 behavior. I wonder if anybody else with the chkdsk problem also noticed KIS6.0 using lots of CPU...?

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lodore, just out of interest:

How many files do you have on your partition protected by KIS/KAV?

Are you using KIS/KAV 6.0? Which release?

 

My PC also appears to be running fine except that O&O defrag refuses to work and chkdsk always reports these errors and is unable to remove the errors... so I have yet to discover the corrupted folders/files... but I have several 100s of 1000s of files...

 

-Simon

 

I have at least 200,000 files

68gb used out of 160gb.

Chkdisc sometimes finds errors but always corrects them on my pc.

its odd that Chkdisc cant correct the errors on your pc.

I use kis6.0 411 (mp1)

I havent tryed 0&0 defrag recently due to the fact ive got diskeeper and im happy with it.

it takes a long time to start stage 2 but it completes successfully.

any other question just ask.

lodore

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I used release 3xx -- which had the 100% CPU problem. So then I upgraded to the 411 release hoping that all my worries would be over... but the whole thing is more like a nightmare... :-(

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My PC also appears to be running fine except that O&O defrag refuses to work and chkdsk always reports these errors and is unable to remove the errors... so I have yet to discover the corrupted folders/files... but I have several 100s of 1000s of files...

 

-Simon

 

I waited months before upgrading my KAV Personal to KIS 6 because of that chkdsk delay. Now I'm very happy that I finally made the switch. Through a lot of testing I came up with my own theory that KIS/KAV 6 use the NTFS file system meta data feature to the extreme. I think that's what bogs chkdsk stage 2 down so much. When I use PerfectDisk and defrag the metadata I get about a 30% improvement (reduction) in that intial stage 2 delay. But it never gets back to the pre-KIS scan speed.

 

The main reason that I waited so long was that I was having other problems with chkdsk always finding a large number of errors. I had been using O&O Defrag before the PerfectDisk. Every time that I tried the boot time defrag with O&O Defrag my system would not boot up and it reported NTFS file system problems and forced me to run chkdsk again. I finally figured out that it might be O&O Defrag. I got PerfectDisk on the advice of some people here and I never had the file system problems again.

 

I have no idea if my system is typical or an just isolated case. But I now swear by PerfectDisk. I'd be willing to bet that DiskKeeper would also perform well given Iodore's experience.

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Iodore, I read this post:

http://forum.kaspersky.com/index.php?showtopic=14995&st=55#

 

...which suggests that there's still a potential problem even if chkdsk reports no errors. Maybe you like to time stage 2 yourself?

 

hmm i dono maybe chkdisc does take longer but maybe it means theres alot of indexes due to icheckers?

and since its slightly longer after a scan then that would make sense.

i dont know how long since i have a pinball table in the same room that i got for xmas :D

so i just played pinball and checked it a few times.

times flys when playing pinball so dono how long.

lodore

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Sorry about that! I meant Lodore  :D

its ok :D

i did try the other options and in the end settled on diskeeper.

now the only thing is when i upgrade from 10 do i get 2007 pro or 2007 pro premier?

decisions decisions lol

lodore

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FrankD3, I have some new info which suggests that O&O defrag is not the problem at all:

 

The new info: While I use a DELL Inspiron notebook, my wife got a nice new Toshiba for Christmas. I bought her a copy of KIS6.0. The only software she has installed on the Toshiba is:

- Win XP SP2

- Firefox2.0

- Google DeskTop

- KIS6.0

 

And what do you know? Yes... chkdsk errors with no O&O defrag installed... So I just uninstalled KIS6.0, asked for 'chkdsk /f', rebooted, and chkdsk still shows errors described earlier.

 

Then I used the KisKav6Remove.zip described here:

http://forum.kaspersky.com/index.php?showtopic=28618#

 

I then did another 'chkdsk /f' and rebooted. Then I did another 'chkdsk'. The first thing I noticed is that the chkdsk phase 2 'delay' is still present even though KIS6.0 has been uninstalled and all traces removed. And finally there is the same chkdsk error problem... like before, it is not possible for chkdsk to remove the errors.

 

I just read every single e-mail in this thread. It's difficult to understand why Don and the KAV6 project manager think this problem is so rare. I've got one 2-year-old DELL Inspiron loaded with software and one brand new Toshiba with only 3 applications installed and the same chkdsk problem!!! What are the chances of that happening if the problem is really so rare?

 

I also can't understand why Kaspersky have made so few official comments in this thread...

 

 

The main reason that I waited so long was that I was having other problems with chkdsk always finding a large number of errors. I had been using O&O Defrag before the PerfectDisk. Every time that I tried the boot time defrag with O&O Defrag my system would not boot up and it reported NTFS file system problems and forced me to run chkdsk again. I finally figured out that it might be O&O Defrag. I got PerfectDisk on the advice of some people here and I never had the file system problems again.

 

I have no idea if my system is typical or an just isolated case. But I now swear by PerfectDisk. I'd be willing to bet that DiskKeeper would also perform well given Iodore's experience.

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There is no disk or data corruption. I still do not understand why point blank this is still an issue :)

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It's an issue for me because:

- chkdsk can obviously not be relied upon anymore after KIS6.0 has been working

-- so what happens when I want to diagnose or repair a real file system problem?

- other software (like o&o defrag) refuses to work after KIS6.0 has been working and complains that the disk is corrupt

- who is to say that no data has been corrupted? I've read that one guy could no longer image his disk for backups after KIS6.0 has been working...

 

Creating a TrueImage mirror is the next thing on my todo list. If the mirror fails then I can't imagine regaining faith in KIS6.0. If the mirror works then I will try to restore the system without KIS6.0 and all the chkdsk problems.

 

Other than that then I'll be looking at this thread for the next few days to see if those responsible at Kaspersky are brave enough to make another comment... or dare say, present a solution or even an explanation...

 

The bottom line is that I use my notebook to make a living and I can't afford to tolerate software which puts data integrity in danger :-(

 

There is no disk or data corruption. I still do not understand why point blank this is still an issue :)

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kaspersky have been in contact with microsoft a while ago but kaspersky hasnt made any offical infomation about the issue.

if people's data was at risk dont you think kaspersky would release a fix and warn there customers on the kaspersky homepage?

lodore

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Oh, and Whizard, please don't forget... this is not my only problem with KIS6.0. First I had the 100% CPU problem with release 3xx, and then release 411 still has an unexplained constant ~ 20% CPU problem (please see other recent thread)... so if it's not data integrity then it's resource hogging...

 

<rant>As a side note -- and off topic -- then I also can't understand why KIS6.0 doesn't have some kind of software upgrade option like other software written in 2006/7...? I mean it's kind of stone-age technology to completely uninstall, reboot, go into safe mode, run the quick and dirty just-make-sure-it's-uninstalled script, reboot, install new version, and finally reboot... Other advanced software like VMware manage to completely install and upgrade without all this rebooting nonsense. </rant>

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Exactly. Also make sure you stay away from TrueImage, I hear nothing but data corruption from the one of the versions. Its probably related to 10 as well. Regarding your latest comment, in-place upgrades should be possible in version 7.0, but there is no ETA at this point in time. I assure you the reboot is needed, since Windows does not automatically load the latest kernel drivers, to properly protect your system :)

 

ADDED: Throughout beta testing, I have not experienced any lockups. It must be something on your end. I found your thread. You did not follow up with Don's posts.

Edited by Whizard

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lodore, I don't know which is more difficult to believe:

1. That I've managed to get the 'very rare' problem on two very different notebooks ... which must be like winning the lotto twice in a row (if you believe this forum)

or

2. That Kaspersky have just got their head in the sand on this one...

 

So I'm going to try the following strategy to get to the bottom of this mystery:

1. Ensure that mirroring software still works (this is a must-have)

2. See if PerfectDisk works (while O&O defrag refuses to work)

3. Write a little Perl script to run CRC checks on all the files on the disk periodically (e.g. once per night) while KIS6.0 is running in order to test the corruption theory once and for all...

 

 

kaspersky have been in contact with microsoft a while ago but kaspersky hasnt made any offical infomation about the issue.

if people's data was at risk dont you think kaspersky would release a fix and warn there customers on the kaspersky homepage?

lodore

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That could be. I've been using TI for some years and it has saved my life twice and never failed. However, I stopped upgrading at version 8 (read: never change a running system :-) I don't know about the other versions. Reading in the forum here then maybe TI 8/9/10 suffers from similar quality issues to KIS5.0/6.0 ?

 

Exactly. Also make sure you stay away from TrueImage, I hear nothing but data corruption from the one of the versions. Its probably related to 10 as well. Regarding

 

Okay... but as a system programmer myself then it should only be necessary to only do one reboot on the very first install. Once the kernal driver in installed then it can be used for all future versions. And other fancy file system products like the legendary 'zipmagic' (sadly neglected by its new owners these days... I don't use it anymore) managed to mix kernal and user-mode functionality without problems.

 

your latest comment, in-place upgrades should be possible in version 7.0, but there is no ETA at this point in time. I assure you the reboot is needed, since Windows does not automatically load the latest kernel drivers, to properly protect your system :)

 

Yeah, it never locked up for me but release 3xx used 100% CPU quite often and for several minutes. AFAIK this is a well reported problem and fixed by release 411. You're right that I didn't follow Don's instructions yet because I got side-tracked with this chkdsk problem... actually either problem is a KO criteria for me to use KIS6.0... :-(

 

ADDED: Throughout beta testing, I have not experienced any lockups. It must be something on your end. I found your thread. You did not follow up with Don's posts.

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Security software hooks much deeper into the system. Besides the reboots are not as frequent, only in case program modules or network layer drivers do an update. There is no other way to force Windows OS to re-use a new driver, due to prefetch and caching. As far as in place upgrade, hopefully we can see it in version 7.0, but do not quote me on that one. I am certanly not trying to discredit your findings, but throughout my participation in beta testing, nothing came up. I am still tryinig to get to the bottom of this myself.

Edited by Whizard

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For what it is worth, I recently installed KAV 6.0. I was booting up my PC tonight and it started running CHKDSK. It had already run for awhile when I came back into the room and I could see a lot of "unreadable sector" errors, "deleting index entries" messages, and finally a "recovering lost files" message. The only "damage" I have found so far is that Firefox had to be reinstalled (I was running an older version). I haven't seen CHKDSK since I had a Windows 98 PC. I ran some diagnostics on the hard drive and it didn't find a problem with the hard drive.

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FrankD3, I have some new info which suggests that O&O defrag is not the problem at all

 

 

I then did another 'chkdsk /f' and rebooted. Then I did another 'chkdsk'. The first thing I noticed is that the chkdsk phase 2 'delay' is still present even though KIS6.0 has been uninstalled and all traces removed. And finally there is the same chkdsk error problem... like before, it is not possible for chkdsk to remove the errors.

 

I just read every single e-mail in this thread. It's difficult to understand why Don and the KAV6 project manager think this problem is so rare. I've got one 2-year-old DELL Inspiron loaded with software and one brand new Toshiba with only 3 applications installed and the same chkdsk problem!!! What are the chances of that happening if the problem is really so rare?

 

I also can't understand why Kaspersky have made so few official comments in this thread...

 

SimonHF,

 

About O&O Defrag...

I see what you mean. My problem with it was unrelated to KIS.

 

About removing KIS...

That has already been verified. Removing KIS will not, by itself, remove the chkdsk stage 2 delay. The only way (that I know of) is to reformat or restore your drive with an image from before the installation or possibly from a backup system that deos not restore the hidden meta data files (assuming of course that those files are what's causing the delay!). Here's where it would be nice for the devleopers to confirm my conclusions. But we never hear from them on this.

 

But those meta data files should not have any effect on your chkdsk errors or cause any data corruption or reliability issues. Once KIS was removed and all KIS related processes have stopped, if KIS was causing your issues, then those issues should then be fixable by chkdsk.

 

It leads me to believe that if you get the same unfixable errors after uninstalling KIS then there is some other problem that you need to find. I'm sure that opinion is hard to swallow :rolleyes:

Were any of those errors present and unfixable before loading KIS?

Or, did you not ever run chkdsk before loading KIS?

 

If you don't mind, I have a strong opinion about True Image also :rolleyes:

I currently use version 9.0 build 3677. I find it to be totally reliable for _imaging_.

I never use it for files only backups or backing up directly to dvd's. I hang out in the True Image forums and I believe that most problems are with those two features that I mentioned. If I want to save an image to dvd I make the image to an external drive and then burn it with Nero to a dvd. I tested KIS for months and continually used True Image to restore my drive to pre-KIS condition (to get rid of the chkdsk delay) and I have never ever had a problem with it. If your drive has a file system related problem True Image will copy the problem too when imaging. It images sector by sector as it should. Everything is restored as it was before, MFT, directories, meta data, and the physical position everything was in.

 

I sure hope some of my experiences help you :)

 

Frank

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There is definitely nothing physically wrong with the disk. On the notebook where KIS6.0 was installed longer then it shows the same CHKDSK errors as on the other notebook (where KIS6.0 was only installed for a few days) but many more of the same errors. Unfortunately these many errors have now turned into one very nasty sounding error:

 

C:\>chkdsk

The type of the file system is NTFS.

 

WARNING! F parameter not specified.

Running CHKDSK in read-only mode.

 

CHKDSK is verifying files (stage 1 of 3)...

File verification completed.

CHKDSK is verifying indexes (stage 2 of 3)...

An unspecified error occurred.

 

 

I guess this means that finally I'm forced to re-install the whole disk because the recent True Image backups are also going to have the CHKDSK long pause problem and the CHKDSK error problem :-(

 

Before installing KIS6.0 I didn't run CHKDSK automatically but I will start doing that now. I'm also considering going going back to FAT32... :-)

 

 

It leads me to believe that if you get the same unfixable errors after uninstalling KIS then there is some other problem that you need to find. I'm sure that opinion is hard to swallow :rolleyes:

Were any of those errors present and unfixable before loading KIS?

Or, did you not ever run chkdsk before loading KIS?

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I also have the slow start of stage two of chkdsk on my machine, I have a 400gb hard drive and a Nvidia Nforce 4 chipset (A8N SLI Premium) using the 6.86 drivers, a X2 4800 AMD cpu with 2gig OCZ Platinum ram, and a evga 7800GTX graphics card using the 84.21 drivers and am using KIS 6.0.1.411, I have witnessed no file corruption, on the last chkdsk I had 5 inconsistencies which were cleaned up, yes kaspersky does cause a slow start to this but it still counts up as it should with maybe a 30 second delay, I also have long delays in file checking due to the amount on my drive I suppose but that was there before KIS and that never bothered me, I cannot see any signs of damage being done thus far. Maybe the data on what files have been opened/scanned etc read by iswift/ichecker cause this because windows cannot easily access them due to something kav does to protect them even before windows boots, but I do find running perfect disc helps with the metadata defragmentation, maybe that's why I do not have such a long wait as some on stage two. I am no expert but I see no harm done and am not particularly worried about this. As far as Acronis I had problems with it restoring long before I had KIS 2006 installed and even after validating the .tib files it would not restore as it would say the files were corrupt when they were needed :angry: , hence I am trying to get a refund on that particular product. No software is perfect. :rolleyes:

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The same as most other people on here I have the Chkdsk stage 2 stall before it starts, but mine always completes fully and have no other problems with it.

I have always run Chkdsk fairly regularly (a few times a week) and before KIS install, stage 2 always used to start instantly. :blink:

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