Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

I really think we need an offical report from kaspersky on this issue.

if people dont run chkdisk they dont know.

I certainly agree. Does Kaspersky Labs officially moderate this forum or should I/we pursue other avenues of support to officially get this concern addressed?

 

-Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Hi,

I certainly agree.  Does Kaspersky Labs officially moderate this forum or should I/we pursue other avenues of support to officially get this concern addressed?

 

-Steve

For the 50th time (ok, slight exaggeration ;) ) i have personally reported this higher up already and just this week Jem has contacted support, so i think the "avenues of support" have been contacted, it's just a few post up, but there is no harm in you contacting support also, the addresses can be found here:http://www.kaspersky.com/support. :)

Share this post


Link to post
For the 50th time (ok, slight exaggeration ;) ) i have personally reported this higher up already and just this week Jem has contacted support, so i think the "avenues of support" have been contacted, it's just a few post up, but there is no harm in you contacting support also, the addresses can be found here:http://www.kaspersky.com/support. :)

 

 

ok sorry Don I didnt know but i will countinue to read to get the update when kaspersky have looked in to it.

Share this post


Link to post

Hi Don,

 

For the 50th time (ok, slight exaggeration ;) ) i have personally reported this higher up already

I missed this when initially reading through the thread. After reading through again, I found the post where you stated that you reported this issue to the developers. This was on June 3, 2006.

 

Rather than me or others opening a new suport case on the same issue, would you be able to follow up on your initial report to obtain an update? IMO, four months is a long time wait for a response to a support question.

 

I would sincerely apprecaite it because it will help me with a purchse decision.

 

Thanks,

 

-Steve

Share this post


Link to post
ok sorry Don I didnt know but i will countinue to read to get the update when kaspersky have looked in to it.

What is it you personally want "to get the update when kaspersky have looked in to it", did you see any problems that could even make you think there was a problem for you in your setup?

 

P.s. No need to be sorry, you should know me better than that by now ;), just read & make your own accessment in your setup and if you have no problems running it (i doubt seriously you will), then you should not be concerned with what very opinonated persons try to warn users with, use you own judgement, if you see no problems, then 250 posts should not put you off.

Share this post


Link to post
Hi Don,

I missed this when initially reading through the thread.  After reading through again, I found the post where you stated that you reported this issue to the developers.  This was on June 3, 2006.

 

Rather than me or others opening a new suport case on the same issue, would you be able to follow up on your initial report to obtain an update?  IMO, four months is a long time wait for a response to a support question.

 

I would sincerely apprecaite it because it will help me with a purchse decision.

 

Thanks,

 

-Steve

Four months is a long time yes, and i can't tel you why not, you will have to ask. I can certainly ask again, but as you see Jem asked (post #180/ 18-10-2006, 10-18-2006) which was forwarded to the head of support, i will report it again though.

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks (and I'm not trying to stir any pudding here). I just want some assurance this is a non-issue before migrating to a new product on my machines. My wife and I run a business and cannot afford computer problems (especially if they were caused by me). :)

 

-Steve

 

Four months is a long time yes, and i can't tel you why not, you will have to ask. I can certainly ask again, but as you see Jem asked (post #180/ 18-10-2006, 10-18-2006) which was forwarded to the head of support, i will report it again though.

Share this post


Link to post
Thanks (and I'm not trying to stir any pudding here).  I just want some assurance this is a non-issue before migrating to a new product on my machines.  My wife and I run a business and cannot afford computer problems (especially if they were caused by me).  :)

 

-Steve

No problem, if you're looking for a guarantee that nothing can ever happen to you if you install it, then this will be a long wait because no anti-virus vendor can ever give you this guarantee, there are simply too many things they do not control like what you have also installed besides the one you may decide use now etc. Plus of course what you may have had installed previously.

 

The fact that thousands of users have had 6.0 installed for months (including me & my entire family) without issue's is a good sign which you perhaps should take notice of, just as much as the posts in this thread.... :)

Share this post


Link to post
I really think we need an offical report from kaspersky on this issue.

if people dont run chkdisk they dont know.

Hello all,

 

Sorry for our silence. We've tried to reproduce this problem after the first publication but without success. So, I've just re-sent this case to the test-lab again but if you have any info: step-by-step case, logs or other info - send it to us.

 

It is a VERY rare case and we should obviously create specific hw-sw configuration to reproduce it.

Share this post


Link to post

well if i may add few words to this... i did not read all the post in this topic, so maybe this was already said. i am also kind of sorry i did not start to follow and replay to this topic earlier.

 

as far as i can remember this issue, about chkdsk hanging on phase 2 with version 6 installed, is well known for a very long time, since the very first betas of version 6 back in 2005. i however have no records that this would actually corrupt the disk (i personally believe it does not). there are other much more common issues why an disk would get bad (what exactly should we understand under this disk corruption? bad sectors? prove of real physical damage?).

 

as far as i can remember it was said by developers that this is caused because of iSwift using and handling the default NTFS file informations for its needs to monitor file modifications. it was also said, as far as i can remember, that the issue was investigated and kaspersky developers have be in contact with microsoft because the issues should actualy be their (microsoft) problem (the way the NTFS is handling this file data or how chkdsk is checking it).

 

sorry, i don't remember the exact informations, but i believe that the case is that iSwift is adding additional data to this basic NTFS file info and that NTFS or chkdsk was originally simple not designed to handle this much data.

 

so yes, the issue is real and known, however AFAIK there are no confirmed cases of this actual damaging/corrupting the disk.

 

please note that my memories about this issue might be slightly "corrupt" :) however as far as i can remember this was then the statement from kaslersky developers and i am sure it should still be possible to find it ether in this forum or in this forum http://forums.useice.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi where we all started :)

Edited by saso

Share this post


Link to post

Hi,

 

Thanks for responding.

 

Can you clarify if you are trying to reproduce the disk corruption issue that was reported by some users (not me) or are you trying to reproduce the long pause at the start of Phase 2 of a CHKDSK?

 

I was able to produce the latter behavior by just installing an evaluation of KAV on my laptop (XP Professional SP2). How do you want specific information sent?

 

Thanks.

 

-Steve

 

Hello all,

 

Sorry for our silence. We've tried to reproduce this problem after the first publication but without success. So, I've just re-sent this case to the test-lab again but if you have any info: step-by-step case, logs or other info - send it to us.

 

It is a VERY rare case and we should obviously create specific hw-sw configuration to reproduce it.

Share this post


Link to post

Hi,

 

as far as i can remember it was said by developers that this is caused because of iSwift using and handling the default NTFS file informations for its needs to monitor file modifications.

Can you educate me on what iSwift is?

 

Thanks,

 

-Steve

Share this post


Link to post
well if i may add few words to this... i did not read all the post in this topic, so maybe this was already said. i am also kind of sorry i did not start to follow and replay to this topic earlier.

 

as far as i can remember this issue, about chkdsk hanging on phase 2 with version 6 installed, is well known for a very long time, since the very first betas of version 6 back in 2005. i however have no records that this would actually corrupt the disk (i personally believe it does not). there are other much more common issues why an disk would get bad (what exactly should we understand under this disk corruption? bad sectors? prove of real physical damage?).

 

as far as i can remember it was said by developers that this is caused because of iSwift using and handling the default NTFS file informations for its needs to monitor file modifications. it was also said, as far as i can remember, that the issue was investigated and kaspersky developers have be in contact with microsoft because the issues should actualy be their problem (the way the NTFS is handling this file data or how chkdsk is checking it).

 

sorry, i don't remember the exact informations, but i believe that the case is that iSwift is adding additional data to this basic NTFS file info and that NTFS or chkdsk was originally simple not designed to handle this much data.

 

so yes, the issue is real and known, however AFAIK there are no confirmed cases of this actual damaging/corrupting the disk.

 

please note that my memories about this issue might be slightly "corrupt" :) however as far as i can remember this was then the statement from kaslersky developers and i am sure it should still be possible to find it ether in this forum or in that us kav releaser where we all started :)

 

saso,

 

Thank you! Finally an explanation for the delay. I sure wish I had known this a long time ago.

 

Where have you been all this time? :D:D:D

 

I tried searching through the beta test forum a while ago but I found nothing like this. I must have missed it.

 

If you were in my neighborhood I'd buy you a few beers or whatever beverage you prefer :)

 

Frank

Share this post


Link to post
If you were in my neighborhood I'd buy you a few beers or whatever beverage you prefer  :)

 

B) please note that i am not 100% sure about all of the above, however you might try to search for it in this forum http://forums.useice.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi

Edited by saso

Share this post


Link to post
saso,

 

Thank you! Finally an explanation for the delay. I sure wish I had known this a long time ago.

 

Where have you been all this time?  :D  :D  :D

 

I tried searching through the beta test forum a while ago but I found nothing like this. I must have missed it.

 

If you were in my neighborhood I'd buy you a few beers or whatever beverage you prefer  :)

 

Frank

Actually since the thread is this long in both number of post and the time it has been open, that you may not remember that it was you who linked to it first.....on the first 1 or 2 pages i believe of this thread. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Actually since the thread is this long in both number of post and the time it has been open, that you may not remember that it was you who linked to it first.....on the first 1 or 2 pages i believe of this thread. :)

 

 

:) Oh, I meant to say that I could find no technical explanation for what might be going on.

 

I remember that thread. That's the one where grnic said that he didn't think it was a problem. He was of course refering to the stage 2 delay not the serious hang that the beta testers experienced and which was fixed.

Share this post


Link to post
Hello all,

 

Sorry for our silence. We've tried to reproduce this problem after the first publication but without success. So, I've just re-sent this case to the test-lab again but if you have any info: step-by-step case, logs or other info - send it to us.

 

It is a VERY rare case and we should obviously create specific hw-sw configuration to reproduce it.

 

Not so rare now as I have also stepped on it! :(:(:(

 

 

well if i may add few words to this... i did not read all the post in this topic, so maybe this was already said. i am also kind of sorry i did not start to follow and replay to this topic earlier.

 

as far as i can remember this issue, about chkdsk hanging on phase 2 with version 6 installed, is well known for a very long time, since the very first betas of version 6 back in 2005. i however have no records that this would actually corrupt the disk (i personally believe it does not). there are other much more common issues why an disk would get bad (what exactly should we understand under this disk corruption? bad sectors? prove of real physical damage?).

 

as far as i can remember it was said by developers that this is caused because of iSwift using and handling the default NTFS file informations for its needs to monitor file modifications. it was also said, as far as i can remember, that the issue was investigated and kaspersky developers have be in contact with microsoft because the issues should actualy be their (microsoft) problem (the way the NTFS is handling this file data or how chkdsk is checking it).

 

sorry, i don't remember the exact informations, but i believe that the case is that iSwift is adding additional data to this basic NTFS file info and that NTFS or chkdsk was originally simple not designed to handle this much data.

 

so yes, the issue is real and known, however AFAIK there are no confirmed cases of this actual damaging/corrupting the disk.

 

please note that my memories about this issue might be slightly "corrupt" :) however as far as i can remember this was then the statement from kaslersky developers and i am sure it should still be possible to find it ether in this forum or in this forum http://forums.useice.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi where we all started :)

 

Indeed, I have not had a clear evidence of data loss so far, though every now and then (once or twice a week in average) I do get some current software crashes with mysterious 'Application errors'.

 

I am using latest KIS version (like 6.0.0.300 patches bcde) on XP Pro SP2.

 

It happens presumably only on the system (C:) and besides the weird wait on chkdsk phase 2 start, it does initially state that there are errors in the file system.

Then, I run chkdsk with the correcting options and they are apparently sorted out. If I perform it from the recovery console and re-check, the partition remais fine, no new errors.

If I enter a normal Windows session, exit and re-check, they appear again (different errors reported everytime).

 

I have already spent too much time with this issue and am trying to figure out the fastest way to check it against KIS. So, instead of uninstalling and completely removing KIS, would it be enough to disable and prevent it from running at startup???? Might there still remain some potentially suspicious KIS drivers running all the same?

 

What do you knowledgeable guys think of this option?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Roger

Share this post


Link to post
as far as i can remember it was said by developers that this is caused because of iSwift using and handling the default NTFS file informations for its needs to monitor file modifications. it was also said, as far as i can remember, that the issue was investigated and kaspersky developers have be in contact with microsoft because the issues should actualy be their (microsoft) problem (the way the NTFS is handling this file data or how chkdsk is checking it).

 

sorry, i don't remember the exact informations, but i believe that the case is that iSwift is adding additional data to this basic NTFS file info and that NTFS or chkdsk was originally simple not designed to handle this much data.

 

so yes, the issue is real and known, however AFAIK there are no confirmed cases of this actual damaging/corrupting the disk.

 

I don't see how this can be an ISwift issue. I don't use ISwift.

 

As for no confirmed cases of actual damage/corruption of the disk...Frode is considered to be a non-confirmed case and the others in this thread who have reported corruption also considered non-confirmed? If they are non-confirmed what exactly is the criteria to be a "confirmed" case? Is that something difficult or easy to confirm?

 

I appreciate grnic's post but I still have some concern that this hang/delay at the end of 6% checking in Stage 2 of chkdsk may eventually turn into corruption problems. Obviously, I am hoping that this is just a benign artifact that can be laid at Microsoft's feet or whatever as I am still using KAV. :) I hope Don wasn't referring to me regarding "with what very opinonated persons try to warn users with".

Share this post


Link to post
As for no confirmed cases of actual damage/corruption of the disk...Frode is considered to be a non-confirmed case and the others in this thread who have reported corruption also considered non-confirmed? If they are non-confirmed what exactly is the criteria to be a "confirmed" case?  Is that something difficult or easy to confirm?

 

I totally support you, Mele20, on this, data corruption cases must be taken seriously by the technical staff at KL! I have been using KL AV/IS for some years and now, while approaching the date for renewal, I am really considering not keeping with KL for this incertitude posing high levels of risk.

 

For me it is hard to be sure that all files have remained intact inside the system partition, as I keep my data elsewhere and so what could be missing would often be software settings, cache data, workspaces and alike.

Share this post


Link to post
I don't see how this can be an ISwift issue. I don't use ISwift.

well, i just added what i remembered about this issue. i searched for the original discusion and i guess my memories ware refering to this one http://forums.useice.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard...=2043;hl=chkdsk

 

As for no confirmed cases of actual damage/corruption of the disk...Frode is considered to be a non-confirmed case and the others in this thread who have reported corruption also considered non-confirmed? If they are non-confirmed what exactly is the criteria to be a "confirmed" case?  Is that something difficult or easy to confirm?

as "confirmed" i was thinking as proved that the damage/corruption to the disk is actually caused by kav/kis. bad electricity, heat, dust are much more common and real factors IMO.

 

I appreciate grnic's post but I still have some concern that this hang/delay at the end of 6% checking in Stage 2 of chkdsk may eventually turn into corruption problems.  Obviously, I am hoping that this is just a benign artifact that can be laid at Microsoft's feet or whatever as I am still using KAV.

I absolutely agree that developers should take the time to get to the bottom of this.

Edited by saso

Share this post


Link to post

I went and read that thread. (That thread was a few months before I started posting there so I had not seen it before). Nikolay Grebennikov said the problem was the slow way Chkdsk scans and that Microsoft confirms this and he gave a link that I have read in the past. I have no idea why some Microsoft person would state that it could take several days for Chkdsk to scan a 70GB drive and that Chkdsk would not relinquish the computer until finished. When I first read that statement I thought it was ridiculous and I still think it is. That statement would scare a lot of folks from ever using Chkdsk as most of us have much larger drives than 70GB. Chkdsk used to take about 4 minutes to scan this 160GB drive and even with the hang now at the end of 6% in the second phase it takes less than 10 minutes to complete.

 

I don't think the answer given in that thread has much, if anything, to do with the problem we are seeing here but then I don't really know of course.

Share this post


Link to post

I get exactly the same problem described at the start of this thread. E.g.:

 

C:\>chkdsk

The type of the file system is NTFS.

 

WARNING! F parameter not specified.

Running CHKDSK in read-only mode.

 

CHKDSK is verifying files (stage 1 of 3)...

File verification completed.

CHKDSK is verifying indexes (stage 2 of 3)...

Deleting an index entry from index $O of file 12776.

...

Deleting an index entry from index $O of file 12776.

Deleting index entry FA9455~1.ICO in index $I30 of file 131483.

...

Deleting index entry E2AE368Ed01 in index $I30 of file 188066.

Deleting index entry E2AE36~1 in index $I30 of file 188066.

Index verification completed.

 

Errors found. CHKDSK cannot continue in read-only mode.

 

How did I notice the problem? I installed KIS6.0 in late Nov. 2006. A few days ago I installed O&O defrag which kept complaining that the disk is corrupt and it can't be defragged. As described above, 'chkdsk /f' and 'chkdsk /r' run through but chkdsk at the CMD prompt always causes the same errors as described in this thread earlier.

 

How did I reach this thread? I searched in Google for:

chkdsk "Missing object id index entry"

And found this URL:

http://www.rage3d.com/board/archive/index....t-33865566.html

Containing this message:

"vazel Aug 30, 2006, 04:19 PM It appears others have the same problem of Kaspersky causing chkdsk errors. http://forum.kaspersky.com/index.php?showtopic=14995"

 

So the thread goes on:

"Problem doesn't go away when you uninstall Kaspersky. I believe this was mentioned in that thread. Looks like it's another reformat for me..."

"Reading thought that thread, it looks like KIS screws up the file system completely, and the only method to repair is a reformat. Talk about a bad bug."

 

Having spent hours searching through Google then this combination of CHKDSK errors *always* seems to be linked to KIS6.0.

 

Can it be that KIS6.0 is damaging the NTFS partitions of many users and they simply don't notice it because they are not running O&O defrag or chkdsk regularly?

 

Has KIS6.0 damaged my NTFS beyond repair??? Will I have to re-format / re-install everything (except for KIS6.0)? Please help!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We use cookies to make your experience of our websites better. By using and further navigating this website you accept this. Detailed information about the use of cookies on this website is available by clicking on more information.