Jump to content

Recommended Posts

is this still not fixed? why :/ such good antivirus program has such a problems

don't say its a conflict or specific thing because lots of people have this thing.

i have the same problem just after instaling kav on 3 diferent mashines two desktop computers running win xp pro sp2 (with latest updates via windows update) and loptop with same os. before first full scan is usualy better but after you must wait for chkdsk stage2 to show up for minutes it stays on 0 percent.. on all three mashines same, before installing kav it runs normaly but after it usaly get stuck on stage 2 some times it finishes to the end but with errors and sometimes it just says that some error occured and scan canot be competed.. then after trailing kaspersky, do you think i would buy such a bugy program i tried free aol active virus shield .. that is build by kaspersky, same problems arose... so i stayed with my norton antivirus which is slow bad on catching some viruses but dont mess up my file system.

Edited by vaid_kun

Share this post


Link to post
this issue with the stage 2 hang is becomes kav writes additional data to the indexes, but it doesn't cause corruption.

The hang is because chkdsk has trobule reading the rearranged files on larger drives

 

if thats the official explanation.. and if thats only chkdsk problem but its doesnt efect my data in any other way or doesnt slow down my computer or doesnt disable some functions like indexing service ntfs streams and advanced file sharing or encryption etc etc.. then i may buy kaspersky for all my computers :) but im very in detail man any thing that has something working not as it should work its a problem to me even if it doesnt impact the system overall :)

and after unistal does the indexes fixes it self or stays with kaspersky writen data..?

and what about issue with disk imaging software im using arcronis i dint make a disk image while i was using kav and i reformated my hdd after unistal to make sure the rpoblem disapeared.. can anyone clear things a bit to me.

ill try to make disk image but i takes soem time and restoring image takes another chunk of time :/ and time = money

Edited by vaid_kun

Share this post


Link to post

I'm sorry to re-activate a very long thread; but I have just read all the way through it for the following reason. Yesterday I attempted a defrag using O&O Defrag Pro, for the first time after installing KIS 6, and having had KIS previously do a full scan of My Computer. O&O Defrag runs CHKDSK before defragging, and will not proceed further if CHKDSK reports errors. On this occasion it reported a 'File System Error', which from the cryptic messages appeared to be related to NTFS file index verification.

 

To cut a long story short, I have run CHKDSK several times in its Windows GUI form, after a re-start using the /f and /r switches, and even (gulp!) from the XP Recovery Console using /r. As several posters have commmented, CHKDSK Stage 2 seems to take forever to complete. Any errors eventually found by CHKDSK are reported as having been fixed. CHKNTFS also reports that the drive is not 'dirty', and Partiton Magic states it is good. But O&O Defrag still finds problems which terminate the defrag operation.

 

On reading this thread, it seems that some posters consider that checksums added to the NTFS file indexes by KIS's iSwift module are causing this type of CHKDSK issue. Is resolving the problem still being addressed by Kaspersky Support, or is it now regarded as fixed?

Share this post


Link to post

Already tried that - but no joy, I'm afraid. Command line CHKDSK found about 700 errors the first time and 7 the second - reported both as fixed. No bad blocks reported either.

Share this post


Link to post
this issue with the stage 2 hang is becomes kav writes additional data to the indexes, but it doesn't cause corruption.

The hang is because chkdsk has trobule reading the rearranged files on larger drives

I ran across this thread again for the first time in a very long time.

 

While I am glad a logical explanation has been found, does the above imply there are no plans to change the behaviour? While it may not technically corrupt anything, the fact remains that it confuses chkdsk. In some cases to the point of chkdsk being unable to complete, and that again impacts other applications and the user's ability to correct any and all potential filesystem issues via chkdsk.

 

I checked the KAV7 beta and it's still causing this issue, so it's safe to assume it's here to stay?

Share this post


Link to post

Hello,folks.

While I am glad a logical explanation has been found, does the above imply there are no plans to change the behaviour? [...]

I checked the KAV7 beta and it's still causing this issue, so it's safe to assume it's here to stay?

Almost a year has passed since the issue has been reported for the first time.

Considering this timespan, the official explanation is lame and in no way appropriate.

After almost 12 months I will no longer bother to think about the question if KAV blows up some objects (indexes?) in a way not foreseen by MS or if chkdsk just cannot handle the data generated by KAV, although it should.

12 months were enough time to investigate the issue and find a solution or workaround.

But apparently, no-one bothered to do so.

If the issue is here to stay, KAV may not, at least not on my disk.

 

Kind regards,

Karl

Share this post


Link to post

It seems to me (perhaps naively) that, if iSwift is adding metadata to the files it scans, then Kaspersky should be able to offer a software tool that will remove that data if the KIS/KAV user so wishes. Obviously this would be at the price of slower virus scans.

 

Does turning off iSwift in the KIS/KAV settings menu and then doing a full virus scan remove the metadata, by any chance?

Share this post


Link to post
this issue with the stage 2 hang is becomes kav writes additional data to the indexes, but it doesn't cause corruption.

The hang is because chkdsk has trobule reading the rearranged files on larger drives

 

Why then do 99.9% of users not see this problem? I am unfortunately one of the unlucky few. Will KAV offer a utility to delete the additional data written to the indexes? Although I understand it does not cause corruption, I would very much like to have my indexes the way they were before installing AVS.

 

Any fix or work-around would be most welcome.

 

Thank you for providing a real explanation for this problem.

Share this post


Link to post

Hi

 

As a new KAV 6.0 user just wanted to give my 0.02 observations since I recently purchased and installed this SW and I had issues that led me to this forum and this thread.

 

My PC is win2k sp4.

 

It is hard for me to say with absolute certainty that KAV is causing the problems, but I did not see or stumble upon these symptoms before I started using KAV. May be KAV just brought them to surface!!

 

After first install of KAV I started the Overdisk freeware program to determine my disk usage. After a few hours I came back and noticed it was hanging and had to kill it. Then I started it again and I noticed it was getting stuck somewhere in C drive and the file and folder counters was showing something funny. The file number was fixed at some reasonable number, but the folder number was rapidly increasing to a huge amount. So I killed it.

 

I tried another program to do something similar. It actually lists the folders as it scans the drive and it showed me that the scanning process was getting stuck in C:\Doc settings\All User\App Data\KAV... directory. I have shortened the names here.

 

So I opened windows explorer and tried to navigate to that location and Explorer took FOREVER to open any of the folders under the KAV directory. In the meantime I could see heavy disk access going on. And when the folders did open you can only see a few files in there.

 

This got me concerned and I ran chkdsk at this point. I do not run chkdsk regularly.

I do use Diskeeper 2007.

 

So chkdsk shows a whole bunch of index and MFT errors. So I run chkdsk /F at reboot, and it seems to indicate everyting is fine!!! I go back into windows and look at the same location using explorer, and run chkdsk again on C:. Same problems still persist !!!

 

Then I run low level scanning using both Seatools and Western Digital's diagnostic tool. None of them finds anything physcially wrong with the drive.

 

I had disabled Diskeeper permanently at this point to see if that was causing the problem. But I could not pinpoint anything on it.

 

Then I decided to uninstall KAV, which removed the problematic directories. But the uninstall ran for a very long time and I had to finally kill it. Luckily I was able to reboot the machine ok. I ran chkdsk a few times at reboot time and in windows. It did find a couple of issues - but they did seem to go away after a few iterations. Then I ran the system fine for a few days, while checking periodically.

 

I decided to take chance and installed KAV again. Diskeeper is still disabled on this machine. After installations I started a full scan of the PC which I did not do last time. I started it in the morning, and when I came back home at night, it was still stuck somewhere on C drive, which is only 20 gig and not that full. I had to stop or kill it, I dont remember exactly which one.

 

I ran chkdsk and again i see funny errors. At this point I just uninstalled KAV and I did not want to do anymore experiments. Last week I installed AVG and AntiVir instead. Seems to be holding up so far. I do use AVG on another of my machines.

 

But I hope somebody can help me sort out this KAV 6 problem, because I would still like to use it.

 

I wanted to point out that the only reason I ran chkdsk is because I started seeing something funny after installing KAV.

 

 

Some additional info.

 

I do use the latest build of Zone Alarm with AV feature disabled on the PC. I have tested by shutting down whole ZA. Did not see anything change. But I can try removing it totally and re install KAV if I have strong reasons to believe that would help.

 

I have Spysweeper. Like ZA I tried by shutting it down. Did not see anything change. But I can try uninstalling it if there is good reason for that to help.

 

I have Diskeeper 2007 but I have disabled it since first install of KAV.

 

I also have Spybot , Lavasoft adware.

 

 

 

 

appreciate your time

 

thanks

d

Share this post


Link to post

I resolved problems with KAV 6 and System Restore (which I use regularly), chckdsk, and defrag by doing the following when I want to run them.

 

Close all applications & disconnect from internet

 

Defrag, System Restore

Disable KAV Self Defense

Close KAV (Exit)

Now do the System Restore or Defrag

After System Restore, system will automatically restart

After Defrag, manually restart system

After restart, Enable Self Defense box in Kaspersky AV (if still disabled after restore)

 

Chckdsk

(Note ^ in the following commands means a space)

Start Windows in "Safe mode with Command Prompt"

Enter chkdsk.exe^/f press Enter

If Chkdsk wants to schedule a check at the next boot, say Yes

enter shutdown^-r^-t^01 then press enter to restart Windows

Chkdsk should run on restart without KAV conflict

 

 

 

I've recently trialing a few different programs, including KAV6 and Rollback Rx. I ended up with a very annoying error that caused imaging software to fail at analyzing partition, effectively cutting off my ability to update my backup. I assumed this was due to Rollback Rx, since it by its nature does nifty things to the harddrive on a fairly low level.

 

To make a long story short, I eventually ended up restoring from backup image. I then verified that chkdsk gave no errors both inside Windows and on reboot.

 

I then installed KAV and I still get no errors on reboot, but I do get a number of these when running it inside Windows:

 

CHKDSK is verifying indexes (stage 2 of 3)...
Deleting an index entry from index $O of file 15576.
Deleting an index entry from index $O of file 15576.
Deleting an index entry from index $O of file 15576.
Deleting an index entry from index $O of file 15576.
Deleting an index entry from index $O of file 15576.
Deleting index entry cch~9ce554b81e.htp in index $I30 of file 10071.
Deleting index entry cch~9ce583573c.htp in index $I30 of file 10071.
Deleting index entry CCH~9C~2.HTP in index $I30 of file 10071.

 

Is this normal or is there something odd about my system? I'm naturally a bit concerned about whether I risk running into the same backup situation again, since the one type of error I managed to catch from chkdsk prior to restoring backup was of the same type as the first few lines (the index $0 ones).

Share this post


Link to post
Hello. No it's not normal.

These problems may come form another program or windows/pc not shutting down properly. Kav shouldn't do that.

 

Actually Lucianbara, it is normal for chkdsk to report these errors when run in windows, as currently open files and locked files will report corruption if changes are occuring when run.

 

this is why Microsoft insists that chkdsks be run outside of windows, before it has a chance to lock the drive.

 

anyone else getting these "FAKE" errors, it is completely normal, as changes that occur during the scan will report as a corrupted index and volume bitmap errors.

 

[[in read-only mode, CHKDSK quits before it completes all three phases if it

encounters errors in earlier phases, and CHKDSK is prone to falsely

reporting errors. For example, CHKDSK may report disk corruption if NTFS

happens to modify areas of a disk while CHKDSK is examining the disk. For

correct verification, a volume must be static, and the only way to guarantee

a static state is to lock the volume.  CHKDSK locks the volume only if you

specify the /F switch (or the /R switch, which implies /F). You may need to

run CHKDSK more than once to get CHKDSK to complete all its passes

in read-only mode. ]]

 

this is because the file in the index, does not match the security descriptor for it and results in a corruption, or volume bitmap (freespace in mft reserved) issue.

Edited by squall_leonhart69r

Share this post


Link to post
squall_leonhart69r, as reported earlier in this thread many KIS/KAV users have found that running CHKDSK from the command line, before Windows loads, still takes an excessively long time and detects a worryingly large number of errors. I only encountered this problem immediately after installing KIS, so I'm sure it's connected.

Share this post


Link to post
these are usually just junk indexs which haven't been cleaned up by the OS,.. ntfs doesn't always update itself properly,

 

kis isn't the issue.

If you had read this thread carefully you would know that the details given e.g. by Frode would hardly support your denial.

 

There is a relation between KIS/KAV 6.x, its iSwift feature (suspected) and chkdsk hanging (forever?) on step 2, index checking, at boot time.

 

It has not been determined who is to be blamed though. It is possible that chkdsk has got a flaw, but it is possible, too, that KIS/KAV misbehaves.

 

It would be really appreciated if the Kasperksy developpers would come up with a plausible explanation at minimum. It would be even more appreciated if they came up with a workaround or a solution. (Even if this means Kaspersky needs to programme a workaround for a flaw in chkdsk.)

 

But simply turning those who experience the issue down as an irrelevant minority is not appreciated. Simply telling us to ignore the issue is not appreciated.

 

For a long time I have trusted KAV/KIS much more than any other AV software because of their high level of protection and reliability. And I have recommended others to use Kaspersky as well.

Yet, I need to able to run chkdsk at boot time reliably as well, because I wish/need to make sure the filesystem is ok. Hence, if KIS/KAV 6.x and WinXP chkdsk cannot be made to co-operate with each other, there is just 1 Windows XP, but there is more than 1 AV product.

 

Hope I made my point clear.

 

Karl

Share this post


Link to post
If you had read this thread carefully you would know that the details given e.g. by Frode would hardly support your denial.

 

There is a relation between KIS/KAV 6.x, its iSwift feature (suspected) and chkdsk hanging (forever?) on step 2, index checking,  at boot time.

 

It has not been determined who is to be blamed though. It is possible that chkdsk has got a flaw, but it is possible, too, that KIS/KAV misbehaves.

 

It would be really appreciated if the Kasperksy developpers would come up with a plausible explanation at minimum. It would be even more appreciated if they came up with a workaround or a solution. (Even if this means Kaspersky needs to programme a workaround for a flaw in chkdsk.)

 

But simply turning those who experience the issue down as an irrelevant minority is not appreciated. Simply telling us to ignore the issue is not appreciated.

 

For a long time I have trusted KAV/KIS much more than any other AV software because of their high level of protection and reliability. And I have recommended others to use Kaspersky as well.

Yet, I need to able to run chkdsk at boot time reliably as well, because I wish/need to make sure the filesystem is ok. Hence, if KIS/KAV 6.x and WinXP chkdsk cannot be made to co-operate with each other, there is just 1 Windows XP, but there is more than 1 AV product.

 

Hope I made my point clear.

 

Karl

 

 

sorry, to say, you are the outright minority, so it is obviously something else you are doing, while having kis running that is causing the issue.

 

me, personally, i stress the hdd a hell of alot, for instance, i install new drivers all the time, i rip movies to the hdd, i reset the computer access is occurring and no such issues occur.

 

only thing i can think of is the kaspersky service isn't closing down properly at shutdown and your ending up with corrupted logging information

 

all i can suggest in that case is installing the Microsoft user hive profile cleanup service.

Share this post


Link to post
<snip>If you had read this thread carefully you would know that the details given e.g. by Frode would hardly support your denial.<snip>

Well said Karlchen - my point exactly!

Share this post


Link to post
Well said Karlchen - my point exactly!

Yes. Clearly he didn't bother to read the thread.

 

We now know that the problem is caused by KAV/AVS adding additional information to the indexes. This causes problems on large drives with lots of folders but may not be evident for users with smaller drives, fewer folders or smaller partitions. This may explain why some users cannot reproduce the issue.

 

But we still don't know exactly what is added nor do we know how to get rid of it. Perhaps a look at the indexes with a good hex editor might tell us something.

 

Anybody game?

Share this post


Link to post

I do not suffer from any of the symptoms described here either, must be something else!.

Share this post


Link to post
Yes.  Clearly he didn't bother to read the thread.

 

We now know that the problem is caused by KAV/AVS adding additional information to the indexes.  This causes problems on large drives with lots of folders but may not be evident for users with smaller drives, fewer folders or smaller partitions.  This may explain why some users cannot reproduce the issue. 

 

But we still don't know exactly what is added nor do we know how to get rid of it.  Perhaps a look at the indexes with a good hex editor might tell us something. 

 

Anybody game?

 

hahahaha, a look at the indexs with a hex editor

 

 

there is no way possible to even view the volume bitmap. unless you convert back to fat32 and only then do those files show up.

 

and i don't need to read through a thread to know that the problem is not kaspersky, as i said, i put more stress on my file system, in a day, then you would've have had during the lifetime of your os install.

 

this is clearly, caused by something else, that you are running, while kaspersky is installed.

 

i know theres an issue with certain SiS IDE drivers that has such problems.

 

anyway,.. as i said, try the User Hive profile cleanup... its most likely just logging information that hasn't been unlocked properly during shutdown.

Share this post


Link to post
hahahaha, a look at the indexs with a hex editor

there is no way possible to even view the volume bitmap. unless you convert back to fat32 and only then do those files show up.

 

and i don't need to read through a thread to know that the problem is not kaspersky, as i said, i put more stress on my file system, in a day, then you would've have had during the lifetime of your os install.

 

this is clearly, caused by something else, that you are running, while kaspersky is installed.

 

i know theres an issue with certain SiS IDE drivers that has such problems.

 

anyway,.. as i said, try the User Hive profile cleanup... its most likely just logging information that hasn't been unlocked properly during shutdown.

 

There are some fine hex editors that can view and edit absolute sectors. I've used them in the past and they can certainly view the indexes. You admit you haven't read the thread. In fact your "contributions" on the subject are misguided and wrong. User Hive Profile cleanup indeed! You're either just trolling or clueless.

Share this post


Link to post

Microsoft User Hive Profile Cleanup Service

 

you must feel really ~~sniped~~now No need for personal remarks, discuss the subject!

 

i hope so.

 

as i stated, i don't have to read the thread in its entirety, my experience with hard disk issues ensues that you just blaming Kaspersky is misguided, kaspersky in itself cannot cause index failures, it is more likely a coupling of kaspersky with another program, or driver, or system service that causes the issue.

 

recently fixing a computer with index issues, i would start by looking at the ATAPI and IDE drivers, and make sure that they aren't causing SATA or PATA corruption.

Edited by Don Pelotas

Share this post


Link to post

I have been running KIS for maybe 6mths now and have the slow start to stage 2 of chkdsk, I also stress my drive alot and have no corruption of Indexes in fact I ran chkdsk yesterday with just 24 errors all cleaned up as usual, I have the user profile hive cleanup installed, this is what Microsoft has to say about it "The User Profile Hive Cleanup service helps to ensure user sessions are completely terminated when a user logs off. To accomplish this the service monitors for logged off users that still have registry hives loaded. When that happens the service determines which application have handles opened to the hives and releases them. It logs the application name and what registry keys were left open. After this the system finishes unloading the profile" As Stated I have no corruption, I use perfect Disc 8 as my defragger run regular boot time defrags and use the aggressive space defragmentation option and chkdsk every other week and have no problem with my drive whatsoever.

Edited by Killhippie

Share this post


Link to post

the thing is, kaspersky cannot effect chkdsk at that point, because at the point that chkdsk is run, there are no services loaded or high level system drivers., there are low level drivers loaded, yes, but these are stuff like display, pata/sata, the kaspersky driver is a high level driver and is not required to boot, so its not loaded until the system requires it to be.

 

the 2nd stage does not take long at all for me, and this drive has not been formated in nearly 2 years,.. in fact i've converted to ntfs, back to fat32, back to ntfs, in that space and nien of the issues anyone has indicated to me have occured.

 

i do however, make note that there are issues when defragging ntfs partitions with O&O defrag,.. in that after defraggin the pagefile and mft.. it causes some kind of corruption of the mft resulting in slow performance.

 

Perfect disk and disk keeper have never caused this issue.

Share this post


Link to post
the thing is, kaspersky cannot effect chkdsk at that point, because at the point that chkdsk is run, there are no services loaded or high level system drivers., there are low level drivers loaded, yes, but these are stuff like display, pata/sata, the kaspersky driver is a high level driver and is not required to boot, so its not loaded until the system requires it to be.
Pay attention ~~sniped~~.

 

http://forum.kaspersky.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=277671

 

http://forum.kaspersky.com/index.php?showt...ndpost&p=277724

 

~~Sniped~~ We know the cause of the symptom; we just don't know how to fix it. The symptom persists after KAV/AVS is removed because of the residual extra data written to the index files.

Edited by Don Pelotas

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We use cookies to make your experience of our websites better. By using and further navigating this website you accept this. Detailed information about the use of cookies on this website is available by clicking on more information.