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Kaspersky Lab Forum > Beta Testing > KIS\KAV\KTS 2015 MR1
3x0gR13N
Hi everyone,

the implementation of AVZ Antiviral Toolkit in Kaspersky products was an excellent step forward, some of them can really help in healing a badly infected system by restoring important settings in the registry to their default/recommended values, analyzing critical areas of the system and giving recommendations etc.

But as hard as I try, I fail to see the purpose of the Activity Traces Cleanup tool in Kaspersky AV sad.gif Is it really necessary in a security product, is cleaning usage tracks (opened documents, typed URLs), prefech folder and other trivial things useful or is it a step to bloatware? Please, leave that usage/activity cleanup to other tools specifically made for that purpose like CCleaner etc. Maybe this thread had to be opened before, it's probably too late now (even if we are still at alpha stage) but I would like to see what other users think of this. smile.gif
I understand that KL folks studied the market/users requests and decided to implement this as a response to the demands of the market. There are more and more million-in-one security products like OneCare, BitDefender Total Security, Norton 360 which do all sorts of stuff not related to computer security (fighting against malware). I have been a longtime Kaspersky user/fan and I loved the simplicity, but now I (and dare I say "We") don't like where this is going so I opened this thread in search of other users opinions.

If I could be in the Developers place I would remove the Activity Traces Cleanup and move the Browser Settings in Online security tasks (we do use Browsers in Online activities wink.gif). Or if it is too late I would love to see an option when installing to un-check some tasks (modularity is one of Kasperskys great features). smile.gif

KIS = Keep It Simple... please sad.gif Don't go in the bloatware/fatware area...

Just my 0.02 smile.gif
TonyW
This feature has been requested a number of times in the 'Suggestions...' forum and a few of us have said it wasn't needed as there are alternatives out there, such as CCleaner as you mentioned. One argument could be that you won't need such programs if included in the suite, but is it really the domain of a security product such as ours to include such functionality? If it is to remain there, perhaps there should be the option to include or not at installation.
3x0gR13N
QUOTE(TonyW @ 1.02.2008 00:25) *
This feature has been requested a number of times in the 'Suggestions...' forum and a few of us have said it wasn't needed as there are alternatives out there, such as CCleaner as you mentioned. One argument could be that you won't need such programs if included in the suite, but is it really the domain of a security product such as ours to include such functionality? If it is to remain there, perhaps there should be the option to include or not at installation.

The problem is that the Developers of CCleaner are more experienced in the "Cleaning tracks" area so CCleaner could be better than KAV at cleaning tracks. I do not say that they are better or worse than KL devs. it's just that KL's job isn't to create a good cleaning utility but an excellent AV. smile.gif
Boyfriend
Hi KL RLZ

These are requested features of users. I am sure, if it got into final product, it will not damage u or anyone else. It is one of the part of cleaning process, as well as of privacy defense. On some computers, with only Kaspersky 8, u will not need other utilities to do these type of things. Browser tweaking is another very beneficial thing, at least for novice users, as they usually don't go to internet browser --> settings and see every thing is ok, as your browser correct settings is also part of your "Defense in Depth" strategies. It is not a bad thing that privacy cleaner and browser tweaking is going to be a part of Kaspersky v8, and these are really useful utilities for novice users. Moreover, I am sure, these will not "Render your PC unusable".

Keep up KL, we really want these as a part of v8.

EDIT: KL RLZ, if u don't want to use them, we will not say u to use these. It is OK. But please let them in v8 for benefit of others, especially for novices. These are really essential to restore an infected PC, and for me. Thanks
Lucian Bara
the avz main porpouse is not to clean tracks, that's just a "bonus". the main reson is
1)to provide ana anlysis tool like HJT
2)to provide the system restore thing (reenabling task manager, registry editor and other main features after a virus infection)
dawgg
Just out of curiosity;
1) Is "mountpoints2" registry key protected or any way to prevent/remove the key from being created by autorun infections from removable devices?
2) Is there a way to disable autoruns from Kaspersky v8?

Having features like those in iSergiwa's RRT will prove very useful with the recovery from malware infections (and i'm presuming some of them are already there from what you said Lucian)
Lucian Bara
1)probably registry guard should do it
2)doesn't seem like it, but if you look at the AVZ log it does complain about it.
dawgg
cool cool, thanks for info.
v6 and 7's registry guard didn't monitor mountpoints2
3x0gR13N
Don't get me wrong, I like System Security Analysis, Browser Settings, P-I System Restore, they are really helpful when it comes to removing malware, but Activity Traces cleanup has no purpose in fighting malware and thus it is unneeded in a security product (this is a security product, isn't it? wink.gif). I for one hate to have (and be forced to use*) several applications of the same purpose installed on my machine: one AV, one registry/traces cleaner. CCleaner is dedicated to cleaning my system from usage tracks and it will surely be installed as it is better than KAV at cleaning (imagine that Piriform had to make a virus removal tool... it wouldn't be very good, would it? wink.gif), but if I'm forced to have a less good cleaner embedded in a product whose main purpose is not cleaning stuff I would really wonder is that AV just bloated and because of that skip using it and install a less bloated one...


Activity Traces cleaner would be good for novices, I agree, but remember novices aren't the only users who install Kaspersky, many of them have been in the AV world for several years and they are most probably going to have the same "K.I.S" philosophy (Keep It Simple). smile.gif

As Lucian said: the avz main purpose is not to clean tracks, that's just a "bonus". Why add such a "bonus" tool and don't give the users the option to not install it?
The way we are going now I wouldn't be surprised if v9 had a defragment option sad.gif It won't Render your PC unusable, but FFS why is it in a security product? dash1.gif

I would love to see an option when installing to un-check some tasks, Kaspersky is known for its modularity and those who don't want the "bonus" can just not install it. smile.gif

In my ideal world (I'm a perfectionist tongue.gif), Activity Traces Cleanup would be completely removed and in its place Browser Settings would be moved from Protection Status to Online security biggrin.gif (it fits better in the Online security category). If we get the "do not install xyz tool" there would be an empty space in the Tasks GUI part and it wouldn't be very esthetic.

One more OffTopic remark (still related to AVZ), does anyone know how to restore modified/fixed items to their state before an AVZ task is executed? I really don't like when someone leaves the job half-done. smile.gif



*by not having a "remove feature" option I see myself as forced to use the tool. smile.gif
Boyfriend
Just assume, one of your friend call u that he has got some nasty malware. You go there to help him. As you now, now-a-days malwares make their copies, like in %TEMP%, in Prefetch folder, and in some other places. In that case you need to install Kaspersky v8 + CCleaner+ Some of your favorite utilities. Isn't it better if you got all the above stuff in just one suite; Kaspersky v8?
That is the purpose of Activity Traces cleaner in v8. I would love it having in v8.

AVZ is not only bonus, but all important for perfect cleaning of already infected system. Moreover, it can help you to shutoff unnecessary services, delete some useless drivers etc. I know you can also do it using "Services.msc" and by using registry, But not everyone can do it manually. AVZ facilitate this.

BTW, Why you want to reduce proposed functionality of v8, while none of these is harmful, or can make product buggy. These are really useful.

In v9 perhaps, KL decide to introduce defragmenter as well, as most of other security suites from other vendors also include it to make "All in One".
Lucian Bara
QUOTE
In v9 perhaps, KL decide to introduce defragmenter as well, as most of other security suites from other vendors also include it to make "All in One".

perhaps not.
Tareq Laskar
I don't think 1 or 2 extra tools really makes much of a difference in terms of consuming resources. Activity traces cleanup is indeed security related especially if the same PC is used by more than 1 person. But yes, an option for not wanting to install the tool isn't a bad idea.
3x0gR13N
Every part of a software application can/is prone to having bugs, even something like ATC smile.gif ...and I wouldn't like that KL spend even a second developing/clearing bugs in a tool which isn't related to the main purpose of an AV product - detecting and removing malware. Developers already have a strict timeframe for releasing v8, thus they must concentrate on (more) important issues like HIPS, FW etc. I don't see why normal users can't additionally install a application specifically made for cleaning up traces/usage tracks. Cleaning up stuff like recently opened docs, typed URLs, Prefetch can't increase your security, I didn't see any virus or trojan specifically made for collecting and sending such data or using them to hide themselfs. Sure, a part of ATC scan covers some places which can be used for malware activities, but the larger part is just removing trivial stuff. smile.gif
Other AVZ tools (SSA, BS, P-ISR) are 100% useful in security and belong to an AV/IS product.

QUOTE
In v9 perhaps, KL decide to introduce defragmenter as well, as most of other security suites from other vendors also include it to make "All in One".

KL is probably aiming at McAffe and Norton, trying to overthrow them and become the most spreaded AV around the world, but I don't think going close to bloatware (n00b friendly) is going to help. If Kaspersky enters the bloat area, they are going to loose the battle because McAfee, Norton (...) have been in that bloat business for years and they would beat KL with experience biggrin.gif Make the product more innovative, develop new tools which aren't seen in other products and success is guaranteed. smile.gif


Sorry if I was rude/impolite, it's just that I'm a little surprised (negatively) on this matter. sad.gif
Don Pelotas
KL RLZ, bloatware is one of the most misused terms in forums at all...........................i guarantee you that if you asked 20 persons to described what bloatware means...........you would get 20 different answers, some think it's memory usage, some the much more important resources, some just that there are many options in a suite, others if it includes a fancy GUI.......................and some think ANY suite is bloatware.

The thing is you're fighting a loosing battle, 95% of users want one suite doing it all if they can get it and Kaspersky as well as others have to act according to this reality and not us 5% in the forums.
3x0gR13N
You're 100% correct Don, by opening this thread I tried to light a spark in the Devs thoughts, to let them know that no matter how minor a group we are (5%), we are still users of Kaspersky products and these users would like a small option not to install such tool. smile.gif

I only wish that there was a way to educate users what a security product is all about, explain to them that a defragger, traces cleaner, music player (biggrin.gif) doesn't fit in here and that they must search for separate alternatives. smile.gif But that would be like fighting another loosing battle too. sad.gif

In the end (by Linkin Park biggrin.gif) I hope that the Devs manage to clear out all the reported bugs, flaws and manage to implement all they planned in the specified developing timeframe. smile.gif
TonyW
QUOTE(Tareq Laskar @ 3.02.2008 12:03) *
I don't think 1 or 2 extra tools really makes much of a difference in terms of consuming resources.

Whatever additional functionalities are added in any product version, the trick for developers is to keep resource usage as low as possible. If they aren't able to do that, cries of bloat spring up, but if it's achievable, and I'm sure it is, KL could be on to a winner to attract a good proportion of the market.

On the subject of bloatware: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bloat
richbuff
Marketing will decide what goes into the product. As long as it is new, richer, thicker, bigger, does more (and modular), marketing (and I) will be happy. I can install Product Core and Web AV only on my surfing PC and all items on my testing machine, as I want.
Tareq Laskar
QUOTE(KL RLZ @ 3.02.2008 22:34) *
I only wish that there was a way to educate users what a security product is all about, explain to them that a defragger, traces cleaner, music player (biggrin.gif) doesn't fit in here and that they must search for separate alternatives. smile.gif

I think you're only thinking about being protected from malware and hacking when we talk about Security. But the term Security actually covers a much wider range of areas in the computer world. It's not my opinion. You'll know what I mean if you open a chapter on security in any computer book. smile.gif
Tareq Laskar
QUOTE(TonyW @ 3.02.2008 23:13) *
Whatever additional functionalities are added in any product version, the trick for developers is to keep resource usage as low as possible. If they aren't able to do that, cries of bloat spring up, but if it's achievable, and I'm sure it is, KL could be on to a winner to attract a good proportion of the market.

I agree with you 100%. That's why I'd say adding a defragger would be silly. But a privacy cleaner is pretty useful and necessary IMHO.
3x0gR13N
QUOTE(Tareq Laskar @ 4.02.2008 16:25) *
I think you're only thinking about being protected from malware and hacking when we talk about Security. But the term Security actually covers a much wider range of areas in the computer world. It's not my opinion. You'll know what I mean if you open a chapter on security in any computer book. smile.gif

Yes, I guess you're right. smile.gif <Mental note: read more books about computer security> biggrin.gif
Whizard
Hacking Exposed is a good book to read smile.gif
3x0gR13N
Thanks Whiz biggrin.gif
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